Hi guys I've decided to dive into confrontation. I'm a long term warhammer player (not aos...) and also play historicals. I was looking for a small fantasy skirmish game, I always loved the rackham minis and picked up the odd pack over the years (unfortunately sold most...). I still have a few cynwall elves and daikinee elves with their cards.
I'm looking to build 2 lists so I can introduce the game to friends, I know one list will definitely be daikinee, I adore their archer models. The other I'm not sure about. Ideally something that's the opposite visually (one of the kelt or wolfen sort of ones looked cool) and that would make a fun game to play against daikinee. I'd appreciate some advice on what to get.
Where can I find rules? I'm not interested in ragnarok as I want this to be a skirmish game. I found a pdf of confrontation 3, but it's only 47 pages long so I'm not sure if it's just a beginner thing.
Also is base shape/size important in confrontation? I notice they're all on square bases but for a skirmish game I think I'd rather put them on rounds if possible.
How many points is a normal game?
EDIT: I found a link in another thread to all the rules and cry havoc magazines which look amazing. So it's really just the armies I'm looking for advice on, and any other tips you'd have for beginners. A couple of lists of models to get would be awesome.
The base size and shape is quite important, because it determines the fighter's force and therefore who can give a charge penalty to whom. Further, the square bases are used to determine how many fighters can be in hand to hand combat to an enemy. And for the line and angle of sight as well. Many other cards like spells, miracles, and abilities use the square size base as reference point as well, so putting them onto round bases will make it difficult in many aspects.
Advice for the other factions is a bit tricky, because they all differ in the way you'd play them. For a first glimpse, have a look into the "Army analysis" and "Aotw" (Army of the week) threads here in the board. In the beginning, you will find an overview about the playstyle and then a detailed list about the fighters. So basically, it's your choice to make depending on what kind of a player you are. You can even play the armies in different ways. You can play Sessair as a mass army of cheap soldiers, or you can play Centaurs and big brutes with lesser numbers. Maybe have a look at those threads or what models you can get easily. Mid-Nor for example are pretty hard to get, but others not. Have a look at the style and the models and then decide.
Thanks for the information. I'll focus on the daikinee for now and decide on another army later on. I currently have a mandigorn warrior, 3 guardians and 3 archers. A local store has 3 more guardians in stock reasonably priced is it worth picking them up or would you never field more than 3? When you refer to playstyle with daikinee is it you'd go very combat oriented with a mandigorn warrior and scarab warriors or very shooting oriented with archers?
With Daikinee, it's all in the mix, because they have a lot of synergy effects. My lists almost always have these fighters:
Maneos 3 Scarab Warriors (Never without them, they are the best elite you can find! Masterstrike and Fine blade is a nifty combo) Mandigorn
In addition, Shaenre is a good support, but she also works well with Kurujai. Archers are good, but I use the Guardians mostly as filler. Some Sylphs can form a nice dive bombing division with the Mandigorn and boost his Initiative. Zephirs are a nice mix of shooting and close range combat, but better with Dogs of War.
When you want to play a lot of Guardians, you should consider getting Numae and his warstaff for an extra boost, you could definitely go with masses as well, but are a bit glass-jawed.
I haven't played Onental (but saw him in action and it was quite good), Irul or Erhyl and Meari just once, though his miracle "Ressurrection of the Mandigorn" is veeery mean. Usually, the Mandigorn has to be torn to pieces bit by bit, and that's annoying for the enemy. But to ressurrect him unscathed usually leads to dropped jaws.
Some suggestions and discussions are in this thread as well.
I think that main power of daikinees is dirt cheap characters. You can squeeze 3 of them in 400 pt force. I have some experience with Daikinees and my main beat-stick was always Shaenre. In combination with Kurujai that girl is your best "problem solver". Additional part of combo is mandrigorn. Everyone focuses their attention on giant bug and ignore thin Pow 4 initiate. I prefer more zephyrs than scarab w. Concentrated fire from 3 ferocious girls can remove high res characters or other big hitters quite fast.
He actually had them listed at 14 euros, I enquired about postage to the uk and put in an offer for 11 euros (stupidly, should have just bought them), he then refused the offer and immediately put the price upto 25 euros. D'oh! I'll just have to keep looking and be patient, I'm not willing to spend that kind of money on 2 non hero models. I used to occasionally look for confrontation models on ebay, it seems that there a lot less on auction now which is a shame.
How is the game in terms of balance, are some armies much stronger than others? I had a glance at the dogs of war supplement, it reminds me of mordheim, would be very fun to run with a friend.
I can't wait to get painting, have primed the archers and will start today, I'll post some pics when I get something finished, I should warn you I'm very slow though. Will be so nice to paint an army of just 10 models, as opposed to warhammer (100-200), or napoleonics (400+!). I haven't totally decided on bases, I'm not a huge fan of the ones that they come with and if I get some from cadwallon (looking likely) I'm guessing they won't come with any bases, and the original style are hard to come by. I'm thinking of just using 25mm gw bases as they're common and cheap. However the problem comes if I ever want a model on a 37.5mm base which gw don't do. Not really sure which way to go. I was considering resin bases but the idea of pinning those archers toes is pretty daunting.
Have you had any experiences with cadwallon? Would you recommend them if you can't find originals?
Have already gotten a friend interested, the models are a pretty awesome advertisement for the game. He's looking to get his own army too.
You should definitely go and try Dogs of War, it's a lot of fun, especially with all the different missions and possibilities for your warband! Plus, I very much like the sort of connected stories, experience points and so on.
In terms of balance, I don't think that you can say this army is stronger than that army, because they all have their strengths and weaknesses and usually you'll need some time to wrap your head about all the interactions, synergies, effects and tactical options. So it rather depends on how well do you understand your army and the possibilities. That's why I love this game, you can win with every faction, if you know what to do. Sure, that'll take some time, but I love each and every faction and the options they offer.
So far, I haven't ordered from cadwallon.com, as I'm more interested in the originals, but from what I've heard the quality seems to be ok.
In terms of balance, note that Confrontation is a scenario driven game. You can't just always play beat each other up. Does anyone have a link to the Confederation scenarios? They had some very good ones. I have the document, but not a good host to share it.
I bargained the sylphs down to 20 euros + postage. It's a lot but I figure they're not on cadwallon and I want the cards anyway. I read in the daikinee analysis thread that the sylph can boost the mandigorn warrior's initative, but looking up their special rules I can't find this? Also on the mandigorn warrior's card it says being of destiny/3 destiny/3, is this repitition a typo or does it mean something? The daikinee analysis thread also says sylphs are immune to the assassin ability but I can't find that anywhere either?
The repetition is a typo, it's "Being of Destiny/3." The boost in Initiative comes with the second fighter in a combat, for every friendly fighter in the same combat there is a +1 bonus for INI. So when a Mandigorn does a dive attack from flying, he gets +2 INI, and with another fighter (best the sylph as she can also fly and gives him Bravery), there is another +1 bonus. If you have a scouting Guardian who hasn't been spotted yet, bring him in as well.
The immunity to assassin seems odd to me, though... Never heard of that. Does someone knows about this?
I was wondering in regards to spells, how do you know what spells a wizard has access to (using 3.5)? Shaenre is a water wizard, does she only get to use the spell cards she comes with or any from the book too? I noticed the path of predilection for Daikinee is "unknown" but they have domain of water. I'm a little confused. I was considering picking up a fire elemental but it doesn't look like I can use it with Daikinee.
Every mage has one or more paths (like Necromancy, Theurgy, ...) and one or more elements (like Water, Darkness, ...) and can chose every spell from his path according to his POW and every spell from his element, again according to his POW. The Daikinee's path of predilection is Fayery (page 94), the path for the Dream-Warriors is Symbiosys. See also the Dogs of War book page 83 for a better overview of the paths.
So, Shaenre could use every Fayery spell and every Water spell up to a POW of 4. The Fire Elemental can't be use with water mana, sorry. You would need a mage that has access to the element of fire.